Here we have a Colorado driver employing an advanced driving technique known as "understeer"

"MarquetteLa" (marquettela)
08/15/2019 at 20:07 • Filed to: None

From Sunday’s Pikes Peak International Raceway Time Attack series event.

I shot 1300 photos at the event and ended up editing 380 of them as keepers. Almost a 30% hit rate isn’t too bad considering I’m shooting at 5 frames per second on my D700. Here’s a sampling of some of the fun cars that we have out at these events.

the harlequin Subie is always fun to shoot

and it’s a spin for the SVX

this 911 has an LS motor in the back of it.

he didn’t hit the kerb, the car is lifting its own wheel

DISCUSSION (17)

Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's > MarquetteLa
08/15/2019 at 20:13

Clearly when you understeer you should steer EVEN HARDER, makes perfect sense

MarquetteLa > Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's
08/15/2019 at 20:16

also ADD POWER

Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's > MarquetteLa
08/15/2019 at 20:28

Selling new wheels and alignments since these dingle- berries signed their Lease Agreements. . Isn’ t the point of a track day to learn how NOT to drive off the track? After having fun of course.

MarquetteLa > Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's
08/15/2019 at 20:38

This was more of a high-speed autocross event, so seat time is limited. You have 5 runs to set your fastest time. Hit a cone or put two wheels off track and it’s a DNF. Sometimes you try something on a run to be faster and it just doesn’t work.

Here’s my fastest run from this event. But I coned the last chicane. :(

SiennaMan > MarquetteLa
08/15/2019 at 20:43

Nothing better than watching light little cars cocking a wheel.

I almost feel bad for Mr(s). Understeer Merc, I’m sure they thought they were immune to understeer bringing an expensive German coupe.. that or they know even less about driving “exuberantly” than I do..

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > MarquetteLa
08/15/2019 at 21:48

Question for any suspension wizards: I thought tri- poding, especially on the front wheels is considered a bad thing and indicative of a suspension not set up for max grip?

MarquetteLa > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
08/15/2019 at 22:21

If you just think about the fact that your tire is no longer making contact with the ground, you’re losing contact patch, even if not much vehicle weight is loaded on that corner, you’re losing some grip.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
08/15/2019 at 22:22

Shouldn’t be a bad thing, it’s just that the vehicle is stiff. All the weight is transferred to the outside wheel anyway. The inside wheel isn’t doing anything on a corner like that. My Neon Acr would Lift the inside back tire on corners, and it wasn’t sprung that tight. Just all the weight transferred to the front outside corner.

Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's > MarquetteLa
08/16/2019 at 03:17

That is quite a high speed autocross event, learning in a lightweight forgiving car is definitely the way to go vs a heavy expensive mercedes. One thing to note for you, and I havent forayed into autocross and track driving myself, is your wheel control. You never want to cross your hands over one-another. Shuffle the wheel and keep your hands as close to the 10-2 positions as possible. That tight turn at ~0:26 is a big no-no from what professionals have told me. Otherwise a very good run sir. That last chicane is a freaking thriller.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MarquetteLa
08/16/2019 at 07:32

This has got to be a joke......everyone knows RWD cars always oversteer......and AWD cars can’t spin...../s

diplodicus forgot his password > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
08/16/2019 at 08:17

Its due to running a stiff sway bar. I would agree that it is an issue on the front end since you would want as much contact patch as possible imo. Technically sway bars don’t increase grip they just transfer weight but in theory you’re better off spreading that weight between your two front tires to decrease the chance of understeer. That’s why fwd hot hatches run big sway bars in the rear, it transfers more of the cars weight onto the front axles which are doing all the work in a corner. That also allows the rear to rotate more easily since weight has been taken off of that axle.

Im really curious if that f80 is running an aftermarket bar or if it's factory. Maybe that corner has some camber to it that is causing the lift as well.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > diplodicus forgot his password
08/16/2019 at 08:46

Yeah that was my next question was whether or not it was stock. I have recently learned what you mentioned, that stiffness, particular from sway bars, doesn’t maximize grip which is something I’m finding counter intuitive.

MarquetteLa > Bylan - Hoarder of LS400's
08/16/2019 at 09:08

I keep my hands at 9 and 3; frankly I’m not sure how anyone can deliver fast, precise inputs using 10 and 2. In the turn you mentioned, my right hand stays at 3 and my left hand moves a bit toward 12 because otherwise my hand wouldn’t be able to stay on the wheel as I hit the maximum steering lock I needed. There’s just no reason to shuffle my hands on the wheel when my right hand never moves from 3.

I don’t mean to be rude, but maybe don’t give out autocross advice if you’ve never done it yourself?

MarquetteLa > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
08/16/2019 at 09:12

If you’re referring to the Mercedes with the RWD bit, this one is AWD!

MarquetteLa > diplodicus forgot his password
08/16/2019 at 09:33

It’s slight, but there is a change in road camber right there on the track where a new road section links up with the older part of the track.

diplodicus forgot his password > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
08/16/2019 at 09:39

Everything is a trade off. Here’s a good article

https://www.windingroad.com/articles/blogs/speed-secrets-anti-roll-bars-a-good-or-bad-thing/

Basically you want a soft enough spring to confirm to rough surfaces, so you keep the t ire on the ground as much as possible. If you're spring is too stiff the car can jump, this happens regularly to me in my e28 with h&r springs in the roads in Michigan. If you're springs are too soft though you get excessive body roll. Which is where the sway bars come in. They effectively increase the spring rate of the coil springs but only in the corners where the body roll causes the bar to rotate and apply force to the unweighted tire. Too much roll bar and you get what happened in the picture though. But the actual amount of grip available hasn't changed, you've just maximized the ability to use it.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MarquetteLa
08/16/2019 at 10:09

Huh, didn’t look that close, assumed it was a RWD model.